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BCR Championships 2013

It's time to think about next year's championship races, what do you like/not like, what races would you like to try etc. I've asked Sue whether she'd like to put together the list this year, as she'll be sat at home without much to do but sit and wait during December. Post your thoughts here or let her know.

Karl, if you have a list of road races like you have prepared in previous years it would be a great help.

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Comments

  • Thanks Pete.

    My suggestions for the pot are .... Anniversary Waltz, Fairfield or Kentmere Horseshoe :smile:

  • So here it is. Comments please...

    Sat 2/3/13 BLACK COMBE (AM, 8m/1000m)\
    Sat 6/4/13 NEW DUNGEON GYLL (AS 3.5m/640m, clashes with the Coledale)\
    Sat 20/4/13 TEENAGER WITH ALTITUDE (AL 15m/2300m, clashes with
    anniversary waltz)\
    Sat 25/5/13 HUTTON ROOF (BM 7m/397m, clashes with Jura)\
    Sat 1/6/13 DUDDON (AL 18m/1830m)\
    Sat 29/6/13 BUTTERMERE HORSEHOE (AL 21.5m/2950m)\
    Sun 21/7/13 KENTMERE HORSESHOE (AM 12.3m/1006m, clashes with Coniston
    Country Fair)\
    Wed 7/8/13 STEEL FELL (AS 3.1m/400m)\
    Sat 10/8/13 TURNER LANDSCAPE (AM 10.6m/910m)\
    Sat 21/9/13 THREE SHIRES (AL 12.4m/1220m)\
    Sat 19/10/13 SCREES (AS 4.9m/475m estimated date - not in calendar yet)\
    Sat 9/11/13 DUNNERDALE (AS 5m/550m)

    The Turner Landscape is an English Champs counter, so it is likely to be
    pre-entry only. Should make it an interesting one though. As far as I
    can tell at the moment there are no other champs races here, although it
    looks like the British champs haven't been finalised yet.

    Rich - Fairfield is a champs race so I didn't include it, and I put the
    Teenager in instead of the Anni Waltz. It's like the Waltz (and is run
    at the same time) and shares much of the course, it is just much longer
    and harder. Despite the dreadful name it looks grand and I thought it
    was time someone did it.

    The best race in here is the Buttermere Horseshoe which I think everyone
    should do. It's a old race which was resurrected in 2012 and looks epic.
    Like Wasdale, but much better. I found this on the FRA forum:

    \"Don't have scanner but here are some snippets from race report in Up &
    Down magazine Nov/Dec 1990:

    Buttermere Horseshoe Fell Race, Loweswater Cumbria. Cat A Long, 20
    miles/8000ft; 11th August 1990\
    Headline "Helene's Supremacy - 6th O/A"

    1. Donald Lee, CFR, 3-30-13\
    2. Adrian Jones, Glossop, 3-37-47\
    3. Bob Berzins, Dark Peak, 3-53-08

    Ladies\
    6. Helene Diamantedes, Ambleside, 4-08-10\
    21. Cath Proctor, Mandale, 4-37-53\
    31. Ruth Pickvance, CLeM, 4-55-25

    Checkpoints (OS Sheet 89, West Cumbria)\
    Start/Finish: Loweswater Village Hall - 140201\
    1. Grassmoor - 175204\
    2. Robinson - 203168\
    3. Dalehead - 224153\
    4. Innominate Tarn - 197129\
    5. High Style - 169146\
    6. Mellbreak (South Top) - 148186\
    7. Track - 13191\"

    Epic.

  • Brilliant.

  • and for your next task, how about the road series?

  • Good point. Will get on with that.

  • There could be a few headaches for Selwyn Wright to contemplate if his race AND the Great Langdale marathon + half marathon happens on the same date of which Rod Berry's race has a provisional date set for 21 Sep in his 2013 races fixtures.

    Now whilst the latter starts about 4 miles away at the Sticklebarn Tavern the route of BOTH the marathon and half races PASSES the Three Shires Inn, and it's in this area where the headaches could lie, not forgetting some fellrunners who'll sneak in and park along the road races' route causing problems for these runners.

    In the past these two races have always been a week apart....until now, so they'll have to talk to each other, and if both races DO happen on the same date, then please put it in the champs and let's see how many BCRs converge on Langdale then....both Great for the road and Little for the fell (It's likely Peter G and Penny will do it as it's a Saturday event and both these two have Sunday commitments which prevents them taking part in races on the Sabbath day.)

    From my recogning there's never been a road and fell champs counter race on the same date IN THE SAME AREA FOR THIS PURPOSE even though we had clashes in the 2012 champs with a road and fell event on the same day, they were miles away.

    Yes, more will do the fell race, but your regular road runners like me will enjoy the marathon instead.

    When I get some more time I'll email a list of road races to you that takes place in the county, but for now why not look back on previous year's road champs counters events,choose some and see what other folk want (jot down your "wants" below) before giving the final verdict.

    It's likely the first one will be the Buttermere Round 34km (see my comment on the WTL forum webpage from last week)

  • Thanks Sue.
    Yes, good idea to avoid Fairfield if it's a English champs counter. Last time I did the Anniversary Waltz the leaders from the Teenager with Altitude all passed me!!! I wondered how I was ahead of Rhys Findlay-Robinson!
    Where do the Hutton Roof and Turner Landscape start from please? I've not heard of those two before so it would be good to do some different ones

  • Turner landscape is a new race which starts from Turner Hall campsite
    just north of Seathwaite in the Duddon Valley. I was going out for a run
    and ended up watching some of the finishers including Gary Thorpe and
    made a mental note to do this race next year. There were only about 40
    ish runners so it will be a big step up if this is an English Champs
    race.

  • Hi Rich,\
    The Turner landscape starts from Turner Hall Farm down the Duddon
    valley, so that a local one (relatively new too). Hutton Roof is by j36
    of the M6 and is a favourite of Parmy and Phils. They go every year.

    Now for the road. Here's my first stab...

    ...But before I start can I just say that there aren't as many local
    road races and it is really hard to get something which doesn't clash
    with other races, and also 90% of weekend races are on a Sunday and
    there is very little I can do about that.

    Sun 17/2/13 KESWICK TO BUTTERMERE 22 LONG (aka the race of death)\
    Sun 17/3/13 TRIMPNELL 20 LONG (for those training for the marathon)\
    Sat 23/3/13 CONISTON 14 LONG\
    (21/4/13 LONDON)\
    Sun 19/5/13 BLACKPOOL BEACH 10k SHORT (actually run on the beach to St
    Anne's)\
    Wed 29/5/13 LEVENS 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Sun 16/6/13 CROSS BAY HALF MARATHON MEDIUM\
    Wed 19/6/13 HAWKSHEAD 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Sun 7/7/13 CONISTON TRAIL MARATHON LONG\
    Wed 14/8/13 ULVERSTON 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Sun 1/9/13 BLACKPOOL HALF MARATHON MEDIUM (goes north up the prom to
    Clevelys)\
    Sun 8/9/13 CUMBERLAND ALE 10 MEDIUM estimated date (beer and buffet at
    the end)\
    Sun 6/10/13 GREAT CUMBRIA RUN HALF MARA MEDIUM

    Ok - there are few in there which aren't on Tarmac, but lets face it,
    it's bad for the knees, and i thought it might encourage more
    participation to have some flat off-roaders. The Cross Bay goes across
    Morecambe bay to Arnside, and Will said its nice. The Coniston Trail is
    also lovely by all accounts, and there are a couple in there for Andy
    who said he likes running in Blackpool. It's takes no longer to get to
    Blackpool than it does to Carlisle, or Haweswater for that matter, and
    you are more likely to be able to encourage the non runners along to
    support if they get a stick of rock and a donkey ride.

    There are a few which are close to some fell races, but they are the
    ones where i have estimated dates so they may change. A few of these
    will be pre-entry only - Cross Bay and the Trail Marathon being two
    which I imagine will fill up quickly, as will the Coniston 14.

    Comments please...

  • They look good Sue, I may even be tempted........

  • What about(as potential short runs) including one of the Barrow Park 5k's as they are run on Saturdays, and the Gosforth 10k as that's a Tuesday, to help folk that are committed on Sundays, otherwise you will have a very meagre turnout. I am heavily commited on Sunday's now due to contractual obligations - the suggested road series has some interesting nice new additions and really excites me; but I feel I shall be extremely limited as to how I can participate in 2013; :cry:
    Check the Coniston Trail marathon date as Graham usually has his fixtures on Saturday's. Dent 14.2 is also an option for the spring marathon runners.I think the Allithwaite Half Marathon is a much better test due to it's awesome hills for the potentiual champion of 2013,
    I look forward to seeing the completed list

  • Hi Sue - you over emphasise my keeness for Blackpool really - the Pepsi Max rollercoaster is great (and a real scare!) but not sure I would go all the way there to run. I think you mean Lancaster which is where I recommend the Lancaster Half marathon in October - a great run and at least half on trail paths. Good list though with some perennial favorites + some interesting new stuff but Blackpool maybe on the edge of our galaxy possibly. I'm sure someone will disagree but its always a great debate at this time of year. (The Crazy Mouse ride is much worse than the Pepsi Max by the way and is a sure way to shake your brain out).
    Put Lancaster half in - you know it makes sense. :smile:

  • I vote for a club trip to Blackpool, but only if we can find a go-kart
    track or Pete rides on a donkey.

  • Penny is right, we need more races on a Saturday, such as the Dentdale 14.2 (09/03/13) and the Gosforth 10km which takes place on Tuesday 3rd September to go into the champs.
    A 10km race in Cockermouth (21/05/13) and the Workington Moorclose 10km (14/05/13 provisional) also take place on Tuesday evenings in the light nights, as does 02/07/13s Carnforth 20 barriers race which was in the champs two years ago, (and was well supported, I think) even though technically it's a trail race. At least one of these should be considered.
    Penny's point of the South Lakes half marathon at Allithwaite is worth a mention, but that race is on a Sunday, though I haven't seen the date for it yet.

    With Sue's list of races above is denying both Peter G (church commitments) and Penny (working every Sunday) the chance to do the minimum five races to qualify and Penny also works 6pm to midnight on Wednesday's, ruling out the chance of midweek summer races (unless on holiday at the time), such as the Levens 10km.

    Hoad Hill Harriers had the Barrow Park runs (5km, all on tarmac paths within Barrow park) in their champs this year (2012), and a member can run as many of these weekly 9am Saturday races as they wished, but only the one with your best time would count,....why don't we do that? Could make it interesting not just for Penny and Pete G for example but other BCRs going for a time that would then give them a short category race under their belts.
    Results are available on the Park runs website on a weekly basis, just select the location of your Park run to see them, and the Evening Mail carries a report every Wednesday in the leisure section pullout of the paper to, but only mentions winning times etc.
    These Barrow Park runs happen every Saturday from 5th January to the 16th November for the purpose of our club road champs and whilst they are free to enter (great news there), you MUST visit the park runs website for details on how to register etc. Don't turn up for your first park run without registering first otherwise you won't get a time.

    Why drop the Windermere marathon? It's been in the champs annually since the race was re-inaugurated in 2007 and I've done every one of them and have already pre-entered the 2013 Brathay race on 19th May.

    At least put one of the Langdale races (half or full marathons) irrespective of wheather it clashes with Three Shires...it's a Saturday road race. Staying in Langdale, the St.George's Day 10km road race takes place on 20/04/13, and though a clash with the fell race already mentioned above and is on the eve of London, it's another Saturday race I'm just highlighting.

    The Coniston trail marathon is correctly dated for the Sunday (not forgetting it's bloody pricey to enter!)...only Graham's shorter Lakeland trail races series events are on Saturday's, but this should not go into the champs in favour of the Windermere marathon as already mentioned. The Langdale marathon is about half the price of Coniston trail, even though I plan to run all three of them.

    All the Blackpool races should be scrapped and if there was a club outing to a Blackpool race I probably would'nt go...we are a Cumbrian club and should stick to having ALL our races, both road and fell, within the county.
    Whilst the Trimpell 20 is outside the county, there have been problems at that race in the past...lack of drinks stations, marshals and it's very pricey to enter...this is where Dent can come back into play as that's a Saturday race and the already included Coniston 14 is just six days after Trimpell, the gap between Dent and Coniston is a much more manageable fortnight.

    Although held on a Sunday in 2012, the Brampton to Carlisle 10 mile road race has always been on a Saturday annually since 1953...until last month, probably switched due to it being a north of England athletics champs 10 miler, so hopefully that will revert to its Saturday date (16/11/13), but watch this space and I'll post details when I know.

    The Cross-Bay half marathon technically should'nt be in the champs as it's not a proper road race, and whilst a very scenic but challenging race on estuary sands, it's rather pricey to enter, is held on a Sunday for which I've griped about with the organisers, being a point to point (Flookburgh airfield to Hest Bank railway level crossing car park area), denies non-car owners like me doing it because of the lack of trains and public transport on a Sunday.

    Moans over and hopefully some of my points will be taken on board here.:surprised:

  • HI Karl,\
    Why don't you have a go at the putting a list together for the road
    champs? Using your criteria means the same set of races will go in year
    after year, and its boring.\
    Sue

  • Sue .. Great Series for both Fell and Road .. Fresh and Interesting ..
    Well Done ! ... good to see you are making good use of your time
    :smile: .... I'm looking forward to running some of them now that my
    running is showing signs of responding positively to
    treatment\yoga\pilates !! .. It's all Ishwara's fault ! :cool:

  • Sue,
    This is the trail run I mentioned. http://www.grizedale10.co.uk/index.html
    I think it is only £10/12 entry so better value than the Lakeland trail races. It is the day after Coniston14 though so it might not be appropriate. Maybe next year though! :smile:

  • ps - Sorry I am not clever enough to post a link! :shamed:

  • Righto, I've had another go at the road champs....

    Sun 17/2/13 KESWICK TO BUTTERMERE 22 LONG (aka the race of death)\
    Sat 9/3/13 DENT 14 LONG\
    Sat 23/3/13 CONISTON 14 LONG\
    (21/4/13 LONDON)\
    Sun 19/5/13 BLACKPOOL BEACH 10k SHORT (actually run on the beach to St
    Anne's)\
    Wed 29/5/13 LEVENS 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Wed 12/6/13 GOSFORTH 10M MEDIUM est date\
    Sun 16/6/13 CROSS BAY HALF MARATHON MEDIUM\
    Wed 19/6/13 HAWKSHEAD 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Sun 7/7/13 CONISTON TRAIL MARATHON LONG\
    Wed 14/8/13 ULVERSTON 10k SHORT estimated date\
    Sun 3/11/13 LANCASTER HALF MARA MEDIUM\
    Sat 16/11/13 BRAMPTON TO CARLISLE 10 MEDIUM estimated date

  • Brilliant!!
    A gap of 81 days between races and we have three in a week, how about that for planning.

    Two of the races are technically off road and should'nt be in the champs and I will not take part in club champs counter races outside the county, having already pre-entered the Windermere Marathon, and what does she put in.... bloody Blackpool!, miles away from us.
    The Windermere has been in the champs since it was re-inaugurated in 2007 and should be of benefit not just for me, but other BCRs who were rejected for the London ballot and missed out on that / the club draw or both, which gives them an opportunity to get some club points under their belt, which you would'nt get by running London.

    Penny still can't qualify next year under this revised list above but Peter G can.

    We could scrap "the race of death" (I quite like the Buttermere Round) to re-instate Windermere (a long for a long), change Blackpool for the Great Langdale springtime 10k on Sat 13th and Sun 14th April (either or both dates, if a BCR did both, then only his / her best one would count), giving Penny a chance here with a Saturday race and it's a short exchanged for a short.
    I'm happy for Coniston trail marathon to stay, even though it's off-road (but good for the knees) and I've ran the first two since it was a new event in 2011, plus I've already pre-entered the 2013 event.

    Sorting out the other races, the Levens 10k could be swapped for the Dalton 10k....it's in the same month, a little closer to home, we usually have a turnout, and the race is on a Friday evening.
    Scrapping the cross-bay half marathon for say, the Langdale half, would fill in a gap in that 81 day period between events and eliminate the three in a week aforementioned above.

    So this is how I would plan it: What's your verdicts?

    Sat 09/03: Dentdale 14.2 miles (L)
    Sat 23/03: Coniston 14 miles (L)
    Sat 13/04: Langdale 10k (S) as mentioned above this race also occurs on the 14th due to popular demand, and if a BCR races both, then only their best race time / handicap for the weekend will count.
    Fri 03/05: Dalton 10k (S)
    Sun 19/05: Windermere marathon (L)
    Wed 12/06: Gosforth 10 miles (M)
    Wed 19/06: Hawkshead 10k (S)
    Sun 07/07: Coniston trail marathon (L)
    Wed 14/08: Ulverston 10k (S)
    Sat 21/09: Langdale half mara (M). Date not finalised as the Three Shires is also on the 21st and either this race or Selwyn's would have to move dates to eliminate two events in the same area at the same time. See my comments higher up.
    Sun 03/11: Lancaster half mara (M) Karl not taking part in this....Derwentwater 10 at Keswick is on the same day.
    Sat 16/11: Brampton to Carlisle 10 (M) please note this race may be on Sun 17/11 after the 2012 race was switched to the Sunday owing to it being a UK 10 mile road national championship event, and there is no mention yet as to wheather it'll revert back to it's Sat date or if the organisers will now keep it on a Sun permanently....I hope not and it's on the Sat.

    With this list spreads out the races slightly more, gives Penny and Peter G the chance to qualify, me a chance to get to some by public transport if unable to get lifts and keeps more of the events nearer to our catchment area.:smile:

  • I think Sue's list is generally a good selection. I particularly like
    the inclusion of the Levens 10K as it's good to try new routes rather
    than the same ones. I tend to agree with Karl about Blackpool, although
    it might be a good opportunity to have a fun club day out at the fun
    fair afterwards, as it is not really a road race and may be rather
    boring.\
    I think you've done a good job with a good choice of races and I hope to
    run enough events this year to qualify.\
    :smile:

  • I like Sue's list, someone else's perspective is good to give us some different races to run - variety is the spice etc. It strikes me there is enough choice here to perm many combinations of 5 races. And if we went to Blackpool we should also have a donkey race for double championship points.

  • If you must have a race in Blackpool then go for the half marathon on 01/09 and knock off my suggested Langdale half later that month. For a start I won't be there, but keeping the 10k on the same date as Windermere is a travesty.
    Then those who want fun in Blackpool...enjoy yourselves, I'll find a race in Cumbria to do that weekend.

    I'm not saying I've got a grudge about racing outside of Cumbria....far from it, I just won't take part in BCR club champs counter events (both road and fell) outside the county.

    Re-read my comments again...Windermere is our local marathon and gives us a chance to get points under our belts to make up for missing out on the Big Smoke's 26.2 miler 28 days earlier, and dedicated runners like myself ENTER Windermere every year since it relaunched six years ago.:surprised:

  • I've seen the results (on Keswick ACs website, clicking on the relevent link to 2013 results) of yesterday's Keswick / Buttermere Round 34km race and the good news (from my point of view in what I'm about to say next) is NO BCRs took part.
    Now, whilst eight of us did the Black Combe fell race recce social run, me being one of them, and some others went to the Loughrigg / Silver Howe fell race, I was kind of praying no one went to Keswick, here's why:

    In the newsie and above we have the road champs starting with yesterday's race, but because no one went, and I have strong views about the Windermere marathon being taken out (see my comments further up), this is now a call to please re-instate that race as a result of no one going to the Buttermere Round.
    It would then mean our road champs would start with Dent, and by implementing my Windermere reinstatement, the rest of the champs could then be left unchanged.

    Yes, I know the Blackpool Beach 10km is on the same date as Windermere, but this would then give the choice to runners, either go to Blackpool and get a short under your belt and enjoy yourselves there, or do Windermere (of which I've pre-entered) and get points to make up for missing out on the Big Smoke's 26.2 miler four weeks earlier. There's still time to enter Windermere this year, just log onto Brathay's website.
    We have had clashes before in the champs, especially last year's fell and road champs, (with a fell race and road race I can remember being on the same day) so it shouldn't be too much of an issue with a clash this year in light of yesterday's no show's at Keswick.

    Surely it's not asking too much to undertake this change as Windermere has been in the champs annually since 2007, the year that marathon was re-inaugurated, and I've done every one of them so far.
    It would be nice if there were other BCRs at Windermere, despite that weekend having a number of other races on as well.:smile:

  • Alright then Karl, I'll put Windermere in.\
    :captain:

  • Teenager already filled up. :cry:

  • bummer

    has anyone got in?

  • Here's a laugh:
    When entering the TWA (Teenager With Altitude) it comes back as "Product is out of stock"!!
    So funny me thinks that a classic fell race is out of stock.

    Seriously though, if no one has got in, suggest: how about putting in the Langdale race instead?
    Although a pre-entry it's not until 12th October, the week after the Hodgson, giving more than enough time to enter, but even this race (which I started in 2003 and still haven't finished it!!) fills up early.

  • Karl - if you started this race in 2003 and have still not finished
    perhaps it is time to call it a day. After 10 years I think you might be
    timed out! Seriously, though perhaps if the TWA is so difficult to get
    into it is probably better not to have it in our champs but of course if
    some people have got in then it will probably need to stay in for this
    year.

  • We need another fell race if we can't get in the Teenager ? (it sounds
    like no BCR's have got in?) .. Anniversary Waltz ? .. or Langdale as per
    Karls suggestion ??

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