Could anyone advise on a good sports physio that I could visit to get through this frustrating knee injury that I am unable to shake off. I done an 11mile road run about 4 weeks ago and woke up on Monday morning with an inflamed knee cap, the doctor prescribed some ibruprofen to reduce the swelling and advised me not to run for a while. I have patiently rested it since then and decided to do a couple of miles yesterday to see how it goes - suprise, I can hardly walk today and its swollen up again. Any help / advise would be appreciated.

Hi Darren … sorry to hear about this .. I’m not an expert .. but that sounds like bursitis to me ? .. treatment is ice ( 4 × 20 mins per day) , rest and ibuprofen .. see here http://www.ssoc.co.za/kneecap-bursitis.html .. but get a proper diagnosis from someone first (a good doctor? ) .. stretching seems to be very important in the rehab process .. for a sports physio you could try Physio First next to the Jade Fountain in Ulverston .. Mark there knows his stuff .. I had a sore knee caused by ‘Illiotibialband syndrome’ (that shows up by a tightness up the outside of your thigh and results in the knee cap becoming ‘misplaced’ and then swelling and pain .. if it IS that .. there are some specific stretches you can do .. one visit to Physio First cured this for me .. followed by weekly visits to Liz at Forgetmeknots for trigger point massage and stretching routines .. other things could be more serious knee issues .. Pete tayler and Pat McIver are best placed to tell you about these …

A Good Diagnosis is the key ..

Wishing you a swift recovery ..

Darren I sympathsize greatly with your persistant knee injury problem I endorse fully what Dave has written get it properly looked at by a sport therapy specialist, Physiofirst are excellent as is Polly Warnock in Hartington Street in Barrow - she will give you 10% discount for being a BCR runner and like Mark she knows her stuff.
Try to resist the temptation though to come back too soon - everyone's knees are different; Pete and Pat seem to be lucky I am about to find out how soon I can comeback to what I enjoy most and I've injured for over 4 months now, you are young so youth should help considerably - good luck I wish you well.

Thanks both for the feedback / advice. Its a bit more positive than the Doctors advice:

"your at an age where your body is telling you it doesn't like the hammering that the running is giving your kness, its a cartlidge problem and only rest is the answer. Can you not find another sport like cycling that you can take up. I suggest you rest for another 2 weeks, I could refer you to a surgeon but it won't do any good its a sign you need to take notice of"

As you can imagine, I come out of the surgery quite depressed, I have made an appointment to see a sports physio so we'll see how that goes.
Thanks again for the comments.

Keep us posted .. there might be something in the bike idea .. certainly it’s good for a lot of rehab \ cross training and it sounds like you’ll be needing that before you can return to running ... I can sort you out a suitable machine if required ..

aren't (overweight and heavy smoking?) doctors inspiring sometimes......

Will,
Please delete the above comment.
Why on earth this has appeared on our forum beats me, but is there a way that this type of spam / junkmail cvan be prevented from getting onto our website?

!

Darren .. hope you’re finding a recovery route for your injury .. I met a new physio to the area today .. Darren Harrison (works 2 days a week at PhysioFirst – Ulverston) ... he is\ or has been an ultra runner .. and is definitely the best physio I have ever been too **. (this assessment based on just one visit thus far .. we’ll see if his analysis and recovery plan for my injured ankle\lower leg works over the next few weeks !!

• In terms of examination of the injury, assessment of it’s interaction with otherparts of the body, understanding that we want to keep doing what we do, and how to manage and improve the injury while doing what we want to do (if possible!) ... I rate the guy.

Anyway .. that’s my soapbox spot over for today (might as well mimic the Politicians with the election coming up soon )

I've just been to see Polly Warnock at Barrow today- she was really good- very impressed; was recommended by a few peeps from BCR.... (you also get a bit of discount for being in the club) and I also found going to see a doc completely useless!! I already feel better about my injury after seeing Polly today- but I've heard there's a few good physios in the area- anyways good luck with recovery

Good to hear you are making in roads to a speedy recovery - keep doing the rehab exercises however boring they may seem and be at the time - mine are certainly working

Thanks for your comments - things are really frustrating at the moment as my recovery hasnt really moved forward that much, I have been visiting a physio in Penrith (Atlas), due to it being close to work, and they diagnosed me as having torn my ligaments. I have been undergoing weekly stretching and ultrasound and also carrying out daily stretching. On the easter bank holiday weekend I went for a walk upto Low Pike only to wake up the following day with an inflammed knee. On my return to the physio last week they we a bit confused and said they may have to rediagnose. I am obviously very frustrated at the moment and I may try physio first for a second opinion. As you can imagine, being unable to run for this length of time at this time of year is quite depressing!!

Hi Darren,
I have hamstring tendonitus which is damage to the tendons which connect my hamstring to my pelvis. I did loads of stretching (which the physio knew about) and it made it much worse. Muscles respond well to stretching but I'm not sure other bits do. I was a bit disappointed that they didn't tell me that in the beginning as I lost a month that way. Maybe you should try not stretching? Accupuncture helped me a little - certainly more than anything else the physio tried - but it wasn't a miracle cure, and it was horribly painful.
Not much help I know.
Sue

I’m going to be walking around London to get the tee-shirt ! .. I will be attempting to record the slowest ever BCR time at London ..

We should all do biking … I don’t think I have EVER damaged a muscle or tendon cycling (except the very occassional time that I’ve fallen off !)

You will read reports elsewhere that Sue ran a 31 mile Isle on Man Mountain Marathon very well .. so she’s doing something right !

Hi All,

Wondered if any one had advice on a sprained ancle. I vsited the hospitol, but the experioence made me non the wiser. A friend says seems to think i need to rest for upto six weeks but i'm keen to get out soon!!

I basically sprained it going over on my ancle on blask combe- applied Ice (cheers Andrew ) and then rested for two days. The swelling was rather impressive and one stage I lost ciorculation to my toes. The bruising came out and swelling reduced over the next week and now i'm starting to walk more comfortably but the ancle doesnt feel strong enough to start running and there is still swelling on the upper outter part of my ancle.

Wondered what was the best tips as i'm keen to get back and strenghthen my ancle for the future

Cheers

Pete K

Peter

I have a couple of ankle braces which provide the support needed to be able to run whilst regaining strength and the correct response from the injured ankle Iit’s a regular problem when orienteering). In the past I tried taping but it was never completely satisfactory. You are welcome to borrow one if you want to try it out.

For building strength, I do a simple exercise: stand on one foot whilst focussing on a fixed point on the ground in front of you and do fully extended ankle rotations with the foot held out in front (say 10 in each direction) and then alternate between feet. It works both ankles at the same time. The ankle supporting you is worked hard in maintaining balance. Works well for me.

Pat

I think it’s fair to say that normal doctors and especially A&E are no good for running injuries, unless you’ve really broken something. Their job is to get you walking, not running. If you can walk they’ll say you’re basically fine, and if you can’t walk they’ll say your problem is running and that you shouldn’t do it any more. All true, of course.

I’ve had a lot of running strains, though not nearly as many as Pat , and I can think of a few tips:

• keep it moving as much as you can (and for minor sprains and twists, keep running if you can). Stiffness and trapped swelling are often half the trouble.
• ice it as soon as possible
• if it hurts but takes your weight, expect a week off
• if you can’t put your weight on it, expect three weeks off
• if it’s muscular, stretch it. If it’s connective, work the area a bit. Both carefully!
• give it some support when you start running again
• don’t go mad for yoga: injuries don’t like overstretching
• don’t run if it feels sick and wrong (and you will know)
• don’t run in a funny way to take the weight off your ankle: you’ll just move the pain somewhere else

If it’s not going away by itself, go and see a physio (and ideally one who runs). They always say the same thing, and I don’t really believe in any of the ultrasound or acupuncture they do for the other 20 minutes, but they’ll calm you down and tell you how bad it is and what to expect and how long you’re not to run for and which bit you need someone to rub.

I like the people at Physio First in Ulverston. Big Mark is very good. He does the Barrow rugby team, so you do feel a bit snappable, but he’s very good at getting you on your feet.

Wobble boards are supposed to be the thing for ankle strength, but Pat’s exercise sounds just as good.

Good luck.

will

Hi Pete … that sounds like a very bad sprain .. according to my physio one of these I had YEARS ago (similar vivid description to yours) has been affecting my attempts to train up for tarmac marathon distance ever since !! .. so the message there is .. get it right before running on it again .. otherwise the damage will come back and haunt you (at the mo I will be walking around London next weekend )

Will’s got it spot on .. I would add ‘cross train’ with swimming and cycling … don’t do anyting that makes it hurt or which makes you adjust your style .. make sure you can walk a mile before you even think of running a mile ..

3 weeks off absolute min I would say .. I’ve purchased a wobble cushion via Amazon .. it’s the best design of a wobble board yet I reckon ! (I made myself one years ago!)

Good Luck

Dave

I has two sprains last year and the second - which was much more painful - was a direct result of coming back too soon. I would recommend that your rehabilitate properly to avoid that.

Three weeks with no running - try to get the swelling down with ice compression and elevation. As it mends you will become much less flexible in that ankle, which will be a problem later on. If you're running downhill and go over slightly and your ankle doesn't bend then you are more likely to 'snap' it again. It will become brittle. That is what happened to me. Every day gently stretch your ankle - a good stretch but without pain. You can do this with your hands. Stretching i think is the most important bit.

You also need to strengthen it too and so wobble boards and standing on one leg is good for that.

If you run in less than three weeks you will just delay your recovery. After three weeks you can start safe running as long as there is no pain. By safe i mean running on even ground where there is no danger of going over. If that feels ok then start fell running again with a good ankle support - i too have one i can lend you. It provides confidence but is not the answer really as it will make you run strangely.

It will be a while probably before you can race properly downhill - perhaps six months.Your ankle will be weak and it will be very easy to go over on it which means it is hard to trust it. I had to change from a right foot jumping preference to a left one as I just didn't trust landing on my right foot. Even running slowly I went over on mine repeatedly last year and it was sore and liable to swell up again.

I'd say mine took 8 months to get back to normal, but i was racing again cautiously and with a support after a month. That was possibly a bit soon though I admit.

Sue

Extrememly sound advice Sue, you've hit the nail right on the head. I have been finding with my knee rehab that slowly but surely is definately the way to go; long winded it may be, but if it means running is possible 'in the long run' so be it.

So far it's taken me fromthe operation on Feb 17th a month to get off crutches and through thorough stretching and icing to be able to walk normally; from 17th March I've started a walking 'jogging' programme - it's jogging but only just above a fast walk pace - from 30 seconds with walk intervals I've now managed to progress to 7 minutes non stop more than once in the same session - I always continue with my icing and stretching as well and only do the walk/jog sessions on alternate days on as flat and soft a surface as possible.

My goal is to be able to jog a complete kilometre by 17th May 3 months after the operation and continue to build from there - in case you are interested Pete I will attach the plan I've devised for myself - but bear in mind I had 4 procedures carried out under a general anaesthetic so although you need to heed Sue's advice - my injury is more complicated than yours.

I wish you well, you will come through as will Darren

So we cheered you up, right?

Apologies for starting this depressing blog!!, but many thanks for the sound advice from everyone.

I followed Dave’s advice last week and booked an appointment at Physio First to get a second opinion, Sue was correct in that the stretching, lunges and squats that had been directed by the physio were the complete wrong answer. I seen Darren also and I would agree with Dave, the guy certainly knows his stuff and gave a different diagnosis to the one given at Penrith – it seems that I have a tear in my joint capsule. The work he did to diagnose this was impressive.
He carried out some intense direct point massage (which resulted in some big bruising) with the recovery exercises consisting of high repetition extensions with low resistance using an exercise band and plenty of heat and ice. I return to him in 2 weeks when he says I should be able to do some flat short runs to start with.

Hi Darren .. That is sounding better .. I’m pleased someone else agrees that physio Darren is a Top Guy .. only wish I’d discovered him earlier :-( ... my recovery excercises are very similar to yours .. but on a different part of the body ….

We watch this space hoping soon to see Darren and Penny and me all running again soon .....

Fantastic news Darren - steady as you you go but onwards and upwards - woohoo!

Thanks Guys for all the advice, hope to see you all soon