Plans appear to be coming together for us all to have a great deal of fun in Val’s Winter Training League ….

I’m helping with the dreaded handicapping (I’m expecting lots of Grapes and Chocolates for Xmas ) and I’ve been gathering data in order to sort these out .. however we’ve got a few new runners in the Club .. so I will be guessing there a bit !

The First thing to sort is ‘Dates and Locations’ .. at the Comm.Meeting last night the following dates and events were proposed, also included are dates of other events (because members of the Club often do these events too)

This is what I recorded … please let me have corrections and additions (this gives me the best chance of attending every event and keeping on top of handicapping)

1… Dec 20th 2009 .. Hilly Ulverston 10K starting in The Gill
2… Jan 1st 2010 … Po House 10K starting at Beckside farm in Witcham Valley
3… Jan 10th 2010 .. Appletreeworth XC\Fell starting at The Hawk
4… Jan 24th 2010 … Birkrigg Common … a new one .. we join with the Kendal Winter League … don’t know much about it … possibly it’s a mass start .. possibly it’s 10K mixed road \ XC starting on Mountbarrow Road somewhere? ... someone needs to ask Kendal I guess and reciprocate on dates etc. ? (they might want to run in some of ours ??)
Jan 31st 2010 .. the brilliant That’s Lyth Long Distance Walkers event from Kendal that we go and cause general chaos at (not in Winter League)
5… Feb 7th 2010 … Broughton XC starting at Broughton end of the Railway Line
6… Feb 14th 2010 … Black Combe Fell .. starting at the Church
Feb 21st 2010 .. Keswick – Buttermere 22 mile hill road race that some people enter for fun? (not in Winter League)
7… Feb 28th 2010 .. Haverigg 10K road from Haverigg Rugby Club

Do these dates look OK ?
Any other events we should know about ?
Who knows someone at Kendal ?

Rules ..
Handicapping by Dave & Val (and anyone else who might provide help if required
.. the overall strategy is to look at last years results (principally the Winter league ones) and the aim is that the most improved runner will win .. for new members we will have to use whatever intel we can gather ! (or guess)
All events will have handicapped starts where possible (except possibly the Birkrigg one?) ... I will be attempting to have the Handicaps visible on this forum for all to see. I anticipate healthy debate
Points awarded for position in each race .. there are separate Guys and Gals Championships within the Winter League
Best 4 from 7 (so you have to finish at least 4 to qualify) .. lowest points wins ! .. remember it’s ‘Serious Fun !’

Helpers
Anyone who would like to offer their assistance with starting \ timing .. please let me know (I’m hoping to run the series myself as good prep for my London Challenge) .. Thanks

Please contribute your thoughts and ideas …..

PROPOSED CHANGE of EVENT .. GRIZEBECK not PO HOUSE
Folks .. Val and I have been discussing an Alternative Road Route to the Po House circuit for the Winter League … our proposal (a route suggested by Claire) is that we use the Grizebeck \ Subberthwaite Common Route (start & finish at the end of the Woodland Road in the layby where it joins the A5092 … the reasons are .
1. Po House route has at least 2 miles on a main road and start\finishes on a main road .. Grizebeck route is on minor back roads ..
2. Po House route doesn’t have good parking or a venue to drink\eat at nearby .. Grizebeck has The Greyhound with beer \ food and parking.

What do you think ?

We are doing this "lollipop loop" social run (as I call it) just ten days earlier on 22 Dec.

While it may be an alternative choice to Po House, we usually stick by each race each year. Whilst I'm not in favour of seeing this suggestion scrapped, we could ADD it to the winter league to make eight races with your best four (2010), and five (2011?) to count??
January 17th being a free Sunday up to now, probably the best choice of date.

What's wrong with running on main roads?
The A595 in the Whicham Valley is pretty quiet on New Year's Day morning, the main reason why we have Po House on this date. Ok the parking isn't brilliant at Beckside Farm, but how many BCRs turn up on NYD to do this race? Many are still recovering from the night before. Some pubs may not open until the evening on New Year's Day, and beside John and Jill Peel always provide refreshments at this run to, we all look forward to it.

I've ran on god knows how many main "A" class roads in the past eight years, including the central reservation between the fast lanes of the A406, between Hanger Lane and Arnos Grove tube stations, (the North Circular) a distance close to 10 miles, the day after a London Marathon!

I like Po House. Well, ‘like’ is the wrong word but I’d be sorry to see it go.

As far as I know the Po House run has traditionally been held on New Year’s Day since the Winter Training League commenced. Although I am aware nothing is cast in stone to say changes cannot be made, however the venue is very popular and close to the home of Black Combe Runners. I would be sad to see this race disappear.

Mmm ! .. That suggestion went well .. I have to say that I thought some others would support a clearly better alternative … never mind ….

Karl,Will & Phil are being far to kind to you Dave.I think you should be made to hop all the way round the Po House circuit, for even suggesting that we change the venue for the New Years Day run.

Thanks Dave .. with my feet I pretty well hop round anyway

During the recent Tuesday evening run around the Netherhouses road route from The Gill (just over 10K) .. it was mentioned that this would be a better choice of route than the ‘Horace’ route for the Winter League event on 20th December (mostly because the descent from Horace is unrelentingly steep !) .. so .. which route do YOU prefer ...
Horace .. one big stiff climb .. and one BIG steep descent ! .. about 10K
Netherhouse .. doesn’t go as high .. descent no where near as steep .. nonetheless it’s plenty hilly !

Thoughts ??

.. and experimentally .. purple is Horace route .. Green is Netherhouses route ..

Obviously the Ulverston route is not steeped in history and set in stone ! .. no objectors at all to the proposed route change .. thus far .. so the ‘Netherhouses’ option with start & finish in The Gill is looking likely for 20th December .. we might even get some flags \ route markers on it too !

Ukverston Hilly 10K .. 20th Dec … Folks, Dave P. has been slaving over a hot Memory Map .. and come up with an excellect alternative to the route we did last year .. this time 2 miles up and 4 steady downhill miles back .. start \ finish in The Gill .. up Old Hall Rd, Left Turn UP Knottallow Hill, at top RIGHT and down towards Coniston , 2nd Right, then Right back down Old hall Road .. arrows will be situated to help … possibly there is an attached map and profile !

Not a bad choice it's a regular summer Hoad Hill route only we add the extra distance of starting and finishing from the clubhouse

Ulverston Hilly 10K .. Sunday 20th Dec ….. Route revision to make it as near 10K as I can .. start \ finish will be from near the medical Centre (up Stanley Street from The Gill) ... assemble in The Gill at 9:45 for briefing and 10 am start for 1st runner .. map attached .. more info to follow ..

Dave

Ulverston Hilly 10K .. Sunday 20th Dec .. here are the Handicaps ... I’ve tried to think of everyone who might run (and some I think won’t or can’t .. but who usually do!)

I’ve based these on as much WTL and Race data as I can find for 2009 …

Who is definitely coming ? .. who have I missed ? .. who’s h’cap is too small .. or too big ? ..... email me at info@guideoutside.co.uk if required

Name mins.secs
Penny Moreton 00:00
Cynthia Crawshaw 00:00
Liz Leech 00:00
Sue Lomas 00:00
Val Gill 01:30
Claire Watson 01:45
Amanda Seago 02:30
Gill O’Connell 03:45
Tracey Binks 03:45
Dave Hobbins 04:00
Hazel Tayler 05:30
Rob McKeever 07:00
Karl Fursey 07:00
Ken Lindley 08:00
Darren Foote 08:00
Rob Saunders 10:00
Andy Gittins 11:15
Phil Newton 11:30
Dave Watson 12:00
Dave Parminter 12:45
Peter Grayson 13:00
Dave Scott Maxwell 13:30
James Goffe 13:30
Sue Hodkinson 14:30
Patrick Dixon 15:00
Mike Jewell 15:30
Mac Knowles 15:30
Dave Binks 16:00
Will Ross 16:00
Peter Kay 16:00
Pat McIver 16:00
Pete Tayler 16:00

Please accept my apologies, just out of curiosity what is the eta of Pete Tayler bearing in mind his handicap and rehabilitation from his operation; looks like 44 minutes to me, as that would give Gill 53.45 which is close to what she p'bed with on Sunday at Langdale (54.14)
ps intrigued to know what you thought my scratch time would be - if I was able to compete

I'd be more like an hour and 44 at present because I've only got a 3-speed walking stick.

I was anticipating Pete hopping around in about 43 minutes … failing that the other 4 guys starting at +16 might volunteer to carry him around in 43 …. so Gill at 54:45 would be about right then … I realized your good-self probably wouldn’t be running at all .. but if you had been I was sending you out as the hare ! .. you were 4 mins slower than Val last year .. but I think you weren’t trying !

Peter Grayson will be in church EVERY Sunday throughout the winter training league and usually only does Po House on New Year's Day (when that's not a Sunday).

Anyone fancy a 19 to 22 mile run with me this Thursday? (which I have off work)

The WTL is always unkind to me, so I might as well do long runs instead no more than 96 hours before a WTL fixture and maybe keep everyone waiting by taking 2 to 3 hours on each fixture, or divert off course and add extra distance without letting anyone know.

EVERY YEAR it is rigged to favour the same people and not give anyone else a chance who has had a bad year of running. Even a scratch start and I will still lag behind as the fastest BCR member overtakes in the last mile.

have you considered running faster?

Karl .. it’s not rigged ! .. last year you ran well and 90 seconds faster than Hazel … so this year you start 90 seconds behind her and your aim is to catch her !

Sometimes you run a long way off your capability .. several of us have tried to suggest ways you can improve this (better diet, sleep, proper training pattern etc etc .) .. but only you can do these things .. if you are sometimes dissappointed with your running or don’t run to your potential you could try modifying these things.

I can’t run anything like 20 miles yet .. so can’t join you this Thursday.

Updated Handicaps ..

Name mins.secs
Penny Moreton 00:00
Cynthia Crawshaw 00:00
Liz Leech 00:00
Sue Lomas 00:00
Val Gill 01:30
Claire Watson 01:45
Amanda Seago 02:30
Gill O’Connell 03:45
Tracey Binks 03:45
Dave Hobbins 04:00
Hazel Tayler 05:30
Holly Parminter 05:30
Rob McKeever 07:00
Karl Fursey 07:00
Ken Lindley 08:00
Darren Foote 08:00
Rob Saunders 10:00
Andy Gittins 11:15
Phil Newton 11:30
Dave Watson 12:00
Dave Parminter 12:45
Peter Grayson 13:00
Dave Scott Maxwell 13:30
James Goffe 13:30
Sue Hodkinson 14:30
Patrick Dixon 15:00
Mike Jewell 15:30
Mac Knowles 15:30
Dave Binks 16:00
Will Ross 16:00
Peter Kay 16:00
Pat McIver 16:00
Pete Tayler 16:00

Dave - i'm going for a 45mile fell run on Saturday, and then in order to complete the WTL on Sunday without suffering further injury to my hamstring tendonitus, I will have to tape both legs together at the knee. My physio will be running round with me performing strenuous acupuncture as we go, and we may have to occasionally slow down for tricky needle placements. Can i have a better handicap?
Sue

p.s Will tells me he is feeling like a well oiled machine at the moment, and he has purchased some super lightweight road shoes for all the secret training he has been doing. Peter Kay has just qualified for the next Olympics and Mike Jewell has a tiny secret bike which he intends to whip out after the first bend. Just thought you should know.

Dave – Did I mention my plan to run backwards?

There has (thus far) been insufficient Chocolate evident to make any significant difference to the Handicaps .. and I’m frankly disappointed that Mike J. didn’t buy his tiny secret bike from my shop !

Still there are a few days left .. and opportunity this evening …

Dave - I am planning to come along on Sunday and give it a go. I reckon I should be able to manage four WL races, and am about to give Sue a crisp £20 note to make it all official. I am hoping the fact that I am new will mean I get a nice handicap, but I am happy to add chocolate to the equation (accidental pun.) Also, I need my bike fixing.

Probably can't make it tonight, sadly, but will see you Sunday.

Paul

Hi Paul .. that you are officially going to join up is excellent … I saw the Ulverston 10K result and I reckon some of our faster runners have someone to worry about now

The Winter League is best 4 from 7 events .. it’s final position in each event that counts (not time as such)

Give a ring to the shop to book your bike in .. 01229 581116

See you Sunday ..

Paul .. I was wrong … you weren’t in the 10K were you .. it was Pete K ! ... you will have to give me a clue now !

I think he may soon regret beating you at Dunnerdale and Kirkby, Dave.

Paul, Pete ... the difference is probably the speed. Please don't give me Pete's handicap, he sounds fast.

As Will intimated, I am the new boy who foolishly set myself up as a rival to the man who now turns out to be doing the handicaps. Like I said, I can supply chocolate. And also promise not to beat you again if it would help.

You'll recognise me on Sunday, anyway (I'll be limping.)

PS: the surname was Kingsnorth at Dunnerdale and Kingsworth at Kirkby, for some reason or other.

I wish you all well on Sunday - I have just been to physio and am being lined up for a MRI scan as there is possible damage in addition to the collateral medial ligament -so running planned for January will possibly be put even nearer to the London Marathon - so if I borrow Mike's mini bike, Pete McKay's new shoes and eat all of your chocolate Dave I may get round London quicker than Katie Price and Peter Andre's lastyear time of 7.5 hours - my target is 6.5 hours unless dark chocolate works better!
Ps Last year I was ill rather than letting Val get the better of me hence the pathetic time. Otherwise I would have hopefully got round in about 52/53 minutes as it was hillier than the 49.04 Xmas Pud run a few weeks earlier.

New boy question: how long is the run on Sunday?

Approximately 10k assuming they flag it and you don't get lost - good luck

does our handicapper possess a devilish streak?

Ratz .. secrets out now (nice picture there Pat!)

Still no actual Chocolates .. but the offers are at least arriving as folks start to realize the SERIOUSNESS of the situation .. Paul .. I think it’s reasonable if you start with me ! ... we were pretty close at Dunnerdale (you ran well) and Kirkby (I definitely didn’t) .. just stay 1 yard behind right to the end .. that will do it

HELP REQUIRED please … Mike B. has had to pull out of being timekeeper on Sunday .. his Father taken ill so he’s off to London .. so .. can someone help with Timekeeping please ? .. Duties are
1. set people off at time according to the Handicap\Start List ..
2. record Finish Times ..
Let me know if you can help … Thanks

I have Flags etc. now and plan to put them out late Saturday \ early Sunday .. I have armed the Farmer at Rake Farm with a Trip wire just incase anyone tries to cheat by running directly down to Well House !

I'll do it it's an excuse to meet up with everyone before Xmas plus I've got a stopwatch - where and when do you want me?please can you print off the handicap list as I have no ink at the moment, will you bring along a waterproof clipboard or do i need to get one from Mountain Centre?

SNOW WARNING ! .. Folks .. tonights weather forecast appears to be for lots of snow on Saturday Night .. those coming up Grizebeck from Broughton side might struggle .. the road down to Ulverston might not be treated .. and the back roads we are running on definitely won’t be !
I’ll assess the situation first thing Sunday .. any questions .. phone me at home .. 01229 587059

Dave

Hi Dave, if it's snowy I may not come as stiff knee/snow/possible ice don't mix too well - hope you got my phone message last night - there are plenty of other Sundays when it could be rescheduled; as it's no point in endangering the London runners chances of staying uninjured,especially as you can only defer once for London if unable to run - I'm out at a works do tonight but hope to be home before the snows!!

We’ll all have to have a ring around in the morning after we’ve seen what it does overnight !
I agree that the roads may be too icy to run on !
I have mince pies and chocs ready as recovery food

Folks .. Val and I have agreed to postpone the Winter League event that was to happen tomorrow (Sunday 20th Dec) .. there is sleet right now in Ulverston .. which will be snow on the top road .. and a -4 frost is due tonight .. so everywhere will be covered with Ice or Snow in the morning .. this afternoon people were falling over in Ulverston .. no .. not drunk .. but Icy pavements !

We’ll discuss and agree another Date at the social run on Tuesday.

If you get this email\ see this on the Forum .. PLEASE phone and tell someone else that it’s cancelled.

Thanks

Dave W.

There's no need to discuss the date to reschedule tomorrow's Ulverston "hilly" 10k.
We have ONE free Sunday trailing, this being January 17th.

The 3rd is only two days after Po House, plus I'm running the Eaglesfield 10 mile race near Cockermouth that day (any other BCRs fancy it? It's free entry and though has no UKA permit, is an informal event laid on by CFR that could have real potential of becoming a new ten miler in the county in the future), whilst some BCRs may take part in the Grange-over-Sands 10k that day which is organised by Allithwaite and DOES have a permit.

WTL races are already down for the 10th, 24th (this being at Stavely-in-Cartmel up Whitestone and part of the Kendal WTL. Note that this fell race is £3 on the day and starts later than our WTLs at midday.)
31st is That's Lyth, 7th, 14th and 28th Feb are already covered with WTL races, and the 21st is the Keswick / Buttermere Round 34km race which kick starts off the 2010 BCR road champs counters.

We don't particularly want to be doing WTLs in March, as there's Haweswater half on the 7th plus other weekends have events on to get us ready for London and the fell champs which are likely to start with Loughrigg.

Thank you Dave and Val for taking the decision to postpone the hilly 10k - I awoke this morning to see a good dusting of the white stuff and now currently as I type it's swirling swiftly around outside my window - sensible decisions require sensible people -your prize eat the chocolate!

I’m not familar with ‘sensible’ ...

Karl’s suggested date (17th jan) .. is a problem for me (and maybe others) .. there is a Trailquest (cycling orienteering) event at OxenPark that day which I had planned to enter ..

My suggestion is that we drop the Kendal Winter League event (at Stavely) on the 24th Jan and do our Ulverston event on that day instead.

Can anyone tell me:

[a] If the new year's day event is still on? and
[b] If so, where it starts and what time (I have seen two conflicting accounts)?

I am raring to go, and also full of pudding, so easy to beat.

Po House is always on. See above under “lollipop loop”. The start is at Ralliss, underneath Black Combe, at 10.30. A hangover is customary.

Paul … are you suggesting you might need another minute handicap assistance there …

I will issue some Handicaps on the Forum .. maybe even tomorrow

Does anyone know a good party to go to tomorrow to see in the NY ? ... and to ensure the vital hangover for Po House

Reflections nightclub, part of the Millom Working Men's Club, upstairs, is open from 9pm New Year's Eve until 9am (just 90 minutes before Po House!) New Year's Day, (there is a charge for admission and booze is on sale all night) or when the last tired revellers leave, whichever is first, should be enough to get you to a party get that vital hangover for the race..... and let me have a win for a change on handicap.
At midnight, why not join the boozed up Millomites in the Market Square (or view the Square from inside the club which overlooks it) and see in 2010 that way.

I’m tempted by the boozed-up Millomites, but I think we’ll probably just see in the new year on top of the Hoad. Mulled wine and four coats each. Meet us there?